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Hey everybody. This is Dr. Kevin McGovern, and we are coming to you live for another episode of the Prove It Live podcast, episode number 88, Terry Glen. Hope Beverly had a great Thanksgiving holiday. And without further ado, I'll turn you over to my podcast host who just, you know, butted in there to hear himself talk. Mr. Mike Ferry.
Mike Freire:Mike. Yeah. So that was, that was poignant and relevant. It was 88, which is the world round Terry Glen, wide receiver for the New England Patriots. The she, right. Can't say that now. Famously. Yeah. Bill Parcells called him. She No. I am Mike Fairy from the Farm Baseball Performance Institute, alongside Dr. Kevin McGovern for Perfect Motion Sports Therapy and Ben bis with the lights on and less rednecky than when he originally started today. Well You
Ben Bills:know, I, I could have gone without the insults this morning, so I just decided to take it off.
Mike Freire:I, I, I'm a fan of the redneck book, you know that good. I'm a total redneck poser.
Ben Bills:As the weather gets colder, the more redneck
Mike Freire:you gotta be. I agree with that. It's hard, it's hard to say redneck in the, in the summer. It really is. I mean, how do you, how do you redneck in the summer?
Ben Bills:You can go like, you can go like backyard redneck with like a cutoff. Some like jean shorts and some boots. Yeah, I can, I can
Dr. Kevin McGovern:see how shorts, long socks and work
Ben Bills:boots. Yeah. Straw hat. Oh, work boots. Yeah,
Mike Freire:that works. That works.
Ben Bills:Straw hat for the summer felt
Dr. Kevin McGovern:basically anything that you find that like country fest. Yeah. Yeah. As
Ben Bills:long as you're holding a red solo cup everywhere you go, you're good. That's
Mike Freire:good. That's a good point. Yeah.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:Country fest. You would be a.
Mike Freire:You have, you gotta have the, the dip can ring in the back of your jeans too. That's can whether you actually have the can there or not. But yeah, I mean it's cuz I can't, I'm not a jeans in the summer guy. I can't do it. It's just not, some people it's too hot at night. Maybe way too hot. Yeah, sometimes. Yeah.
Ben Bills:Yeah. I never understood the people that wore jeans in Texas in the summer. It's like 110 degrees. Like are you trying to impress, like no one's impressed. You're wearing jeans right now. Yeah.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:Well, years ago at. You weren't allowed into many Boston bars or clubs with shorts. Yeah. Or jeans of em. Or jeans. Yeah. You just weren't allowed. No, no hats, none of that. Yeah, that's, that's
Ben Bills:how it is down there. You can't, you're gonna go to a bar. Guys have to be wearing pants, no shorts or anything. No shorts. No shorts at the honky
Dr. Kevin McGovern:tonks at gym at higher. None of that stuff. Yeah, I remember that. But now that's all kind of lessened. Or Well, it's like,
Mike Freire:it's like flying, like remember back, I mean, I can even remember like, we're not not that old, but I can remember like, you would kind of dress up to get on a plane. You would like wanna look nice on the plane. You'd have like your, your travel outfit agreed. And then you have your other outfits for the rest of wherever you're going. Now it's like you are pajamas.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:Well, I think nine 11 took care of that cuz you know, so you don't take off your shirt tie shoes. I wanna wear, if I could go naked on the plane, be like, and then dress after you get through security, it'd be like, here I am
Mike Freire:there. They'd probably still pull you aside, but like, yeah,
Ben Bills:for the sake of everyone else, just don't go naked. No.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:You know, really. Probably coming do that. But yeah, never know. You never know. Listen, listen buddy, boy, as my dad said, I got to this age. You still have to get. And I played baseball until I'm in my forties. You're already retired. I got a long way to go. you're already retired, but if you're
Ben Bills:Jersey, if if number 88, you know, not thinking of Michael Irving. You're kind of not right in the head's that Michael I, yeah, Michael, so you play football. He played for the mean machine on the longest yard.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:Oh yes, yes. There you go. Yes. He played the NFL
Ben Bills:Deacon.
Mike Freire:Beacon Johnson didn. He snort the NFL up his nose probably.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:Well, he's sitting to you, right? He's a you boy. Yeah.
Mike Freire:The other thing, he was famous before. No, I like Mike Orwin. He's, he's, I can, I can, I can, I can listen to him talk football. He's not so bad. So, but speaking of football, there's the other kind of football quick top of the order, right? Oh, no, you're not going. Well, you know my feelings on this, you know this. All right. I'm just gonna give you, I
Dr. Kevin McGovern:have some numbers. All right. Ready? Yep. A little over 300. Okay. Four. Yep. One. Yep. And one.
Ben Bills:Okay. Okay. Ready? The last, the last two ones have to be goals
Dr. Kevin McGovern:scored over 300 minutes. Four total shots on goal, one goal against a penalty kick one goal four in three games. I, I don't
Mike Freire:get it. Short time goal. I know, I don't, I try every time
Dr. Kevin McGovern:this, I, I try. It's the worst sport I've ever seen. You got 500 people in that box. Unless there's some egregious, unless like, like all the players like suddenly fall down, there's no chance of scoring
Mike Freire:it. It's insane, dude. Like there's, they're all so fast. There's too many guys on the field. You have this feeling everything happens in here and then it's like, oh, someone gets ahead of the pack. It's like, oh, the whole crowd comes to life and you don't even get a shot on goal. Not, not, it gets shut down and it's like, I can't, I every, you know, world Cup Olympics, whatever, when people all this, cuz America's, you know, As a nation isn't never been big soccer, you know, country, but people try to get behind it during the big events. So yeah, I try. I always, and I do too. I'm like, and I'm gonna give it a, I'm gonna give it a real try this year and God, God, it's like, it's brutal. I've
Dr. Kevin McGovern:watch, I've watched all three games. I even watched Mexico and Argentina, like I got to the 80th minute we were at, we're out to dinner. It was zero. Zero and everything's like, oh, he almost got a shot off. Mm-hmm. but then it somehow ended up two, nothing. I don't know how that happened, but, well, here, here's how you, like I, I say, should put it out goal. Well,
Mike Freire:so this is the thing, right? So I, I noticed in one of the, it was the last USA game, they replayed a shot that missed by seven feet over and over again, cuz it was like, that's as close to something they had that they could talk about as an opportunity.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:And the one guy who scored got need in the nads might be out for this game. Like his nuts are up in his, his teeth somewhere. That's the other
Mike Freire:thing too. He probably is really hurt. But the flopping is, is
Dr. Kevin McGovern:unparalleled. Every player has got, I heard this cuz we know my connections with the wwe. I did hear this, that every soccer player went to the training zone in Orlando to learn how to f. So they can flop from the top rope. They can flop. Yeah. Yeah, because some, it's like a, like it is so egregious, like they'll slow it down. They're like, eh, they see the guy in agony and then they don't call yellow cart, so he gets up and starts moving. Right. It's
Mike Freire:horrible. Horrible. This is bad. And Ben, I know you like this, so I'm just gonna send my last piece. This is, this is probably my most controversial take on, on sports, but I, I'm gonna go ahead and I'm gonna check soccer off as non-sport. It's a game. And, and my reason for this is because you say, well, Mike, it meets pretty much all your criteria, right? You've got offense, defense, right? And you know, you've got a ball athletic. They're athletic. They're athletic, they're definitely athletic. But here's my take. If you only need one, On your team to have arms, not a sport. Or
Dr. Kevin McGovern:if at the end of the game it's the same score as it is at the beginning of the game, did a game truly happen?
Mike Freire:Well, and well just don't forget extra time that nobody knows how much. No one knows.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:No one knows. No one knows. The mystery. Not that's not fixed, right? Oh, just the referees gonna hold the time, but we don't know. And then they'll put. Oh, there's five extra minutes and it turns out five is like nine. Like, well, what is it?
Mike Freire:Yeah, it's just, all right. Fair turn. Can you defend it?
Ben Bills:No, I think, no, no, no. I agree. I mean, like, I don't agree with everything, but I think, you know, with your, with your heritage being, you know, Spain and all, you'd be a little bit more cultural diverse towards the sport of that's makes its way around the world. But that's, and Ireland
Mike Freire:too. Ireland's.
Ben Bills:Yeah. You know, you would think, yeah, I
Dr. Kevin McGovern:got a little, I got a little Austrian, we got a team, a Austria in there.
Ben Bills:You know, you would think that, but I. The only reason I'm big into soccer is I played soccer my whole life. My older brother played soccer. My mom's from England, her whole family's from England. So it's like our household was, it was kind of like a cultural thing, like soccer. We grew up around soccer. Now I have friends and that are like, like you guys from, you know, like big American, you know, you know, despite your heritage, you know, American sports is, is you guys' route. It's just, it's just the culture thing. It's just different. It's just if you, it. To me, like I don't, I don't like hockey. Like I never grew up around hockey. I don't know, the first thing about hockey, it's, it's boring to me. So it's like, you know, I can see either way, I can see how soccer is boring, but I can also see how it's exciting. So
Dr. Kevin McGovern:I'll just leave it. Well, let me just ask the question. What is the object of soccer?
Ben Bills:I would say to win the game just like every other sport you play. Right? Also, lemme ask you something. How do you win the game? have. Have you played soccer before?
Dr. Kevin McGovern:No. Well, I, I mean, just picking a pickup and kicking. Yeah. Just not
Mike Freire:organized recess.
Ben Bills:No, it's just, it's just different. Like when you're, when you're a little kid and you're playing soccer, you get that feeling, you know, when, like, even when I was in high school playing soccer, it was, it was just fun. Like, it's just fun to run around. And, you know, I do think the, the, the flopping is a little bit excessive, but I think it's also a bit tactical because if you know you're gonna get away with the calls, then why not just, You know, it's kind of like the LeBron James effect. You know, you're gonna get called for a flop, so you're gonna flop either way. You know what I mean? LeBron James now, and I also think that the soccer players know how to fall in a way where they can avoid injuries. Cuz you don't see very many ACL injuries. You don't see very many ham, you don't see like Achilles tears very often in soccer, which you would think running and planting and cutting. You would see a lot of that. That's a very
Dr. Kevin McGovern:good point.
Mike Freire:There's a way to fall. I mean, Tom Brady, I think they,
Ben Bills:they trained to themselves. I agree with that. To be able to fall in a way where they can stay. I train people to.
Mike Freire:No, it's an actual thing, especially in martial arts. Yeah. It's a big thing. Yep. Yeah, you would think, you would
Ben Bills:think soccer would be like the leading sport where like hing injuries occur, but it's just, it's
Mike Freire:not a hundred percent. They do a lot of running and you know, I, I, I would. You know, I mean, I grew up around it too, believe it or not, because, you know, I grew up in Boston and it's all Irish and you know, off the boat Irish guys, where I grew up in Brighton and, you know, the, the, the club that I used to work at place called the Kes, it's no longer in Brighton every Sunday all, and if everybody in there wants to watch the match coming, come to watch the match today, and, and like it would, people would jam in there, watch. Yeah, I mean,
Ben Bills:don't get me wrong, I'm not gonna sit and watch an MLS game on a weekday cuz I think it's fun. But throughout the World Cup of course I'll watch it cuz it's, it's
Mike Freire:the World Cup, you know? See, I think, and you know, hockey like playoff hockey's insane. You watch a goalie that's on his game and he is standing on his head and he, you know, makes 44 saves and it just insane type of action. Like so close to goals every, that's 44 times where it's like, You got a goal?
Ben Bills:No, I would love to get into hockey. I just, I, I would need someone to sit down and explain it to me so I can
help
Mike Freire:you with that. Yeah. Yeah. Gags a good guy. Gags like a Bruins Yahoo fan.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:Just get ea sports hockey and play it on. It's
Mike Freire:in the game. It's in the game game. It's in the game. It's heard. All right. Enough about that atrocity.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:Right? So last time time we were on, which was a couple weeks, You guys had had your first week of off-season Oh, training, the off-season training, and you did some testing correct. And you weren't really happy with the results. Most, if not all of your kids failed. Basic movements, fielding movements, fielding positions, hitting positions. So let's get a little. And then what you did to correct those measures and where, how do kids respond? Where are they now? What's going on? Sure.
Mike Freire:Well, to to be clear, like, you know, we weren't really sat like we knew what we were gonna see. Like, you know, it's, it's the same every year especially with the new kids, cuz they've just never been taught the right way. Our return players, you know, there's maybe some disappointment there. Like, Hey, you weren't working this on your own, you know, since we've last seen you. It's, you see this too, Kevin, right? I mean, think you talk about your game test and no one's ever passed it. So similarly we have, you know, posture, you know, we had points for posture, you know, and just getting in the batters box and getting into load position. And none of them can do it. So we spent the, the very next week. So we had a first week of testing the very next week and, and I'm sure it seemed boring to some of the players. But this is part of the reason why these kids aren't getting this stuff, is we just stuck to it. We said we're not gonna come off the T, we're gonna stay on the T when it comes to hitting. We're just gonna, you know, teach them the posture step, break it down into, into pieces. So from stance into load phase, and that's where we wanna see the posture. And then work on just the initial rotation. Like we didn't really get into swing mechanics just stayed on posture the entire time. And that went into defense too. And you know, so interestingly or not really if you know, but you know, ready position as an infielder, right? Is. Pretty much the same thing as a load position. You want your hips back, you're sitting your butt down, no hips back, chest forward, chin up, shoulders down and back, the whole nine yards. So we worked on both offense and defense, working on that postural alignment, getting'em to understand, you know, teaching them what lordosis is and teaching them that they need to feel that in every single athletic position they're in. So, and, and honestly, we had some. Big improvements even in the first week. We're now onto our, I think, well technically our fourth week, but really it's like our third, because, you know, with Thanksgiving week was abbreviated, everyone only had one training session. But yeah, so we're staying on that. That's gonna be like, if you don't, you know, this, Kevin, if you don't have that, it doesn't even make sense to move on to the other stuff. Correct.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:Right. Now do you, did you guys do any specific drills to work on positioning or posture or, or was it just. Correct. Correcting movements on the fly or, or you know, do you see some kids get it, some kids don't get it. Yeah. And what are you
Mike Freire:doing about that? Yeah, so good question. So there were some drills that we didn't do program wide because mostly, you know, Our instructors are all trained to see this, so it was really, you know, if, if a kid's up, we get 10 swings off the T, you could get in your stance. Okay, now load and pause, load and pause. And in that position we could see where their knees were, if the weight was on the outside part of their feet, all that stuff. And we would correct them because the idea is if you start your swing. From a, from a certain PO posture and position, and you keep starting your swing, then no matter where you start in your stance, your brain's gonna know, oh, we gotta get to this point before we start the swing. So that's the idea behind it. And so, but for some kids we did like, you know, we have a stool, bring the stool out and say, okay, when you load, just feel your butt kind of touched the stool, things like that. So there's some things that we would use, but mostly correcting. You probably know this already, but there's no more than five kids per instructor at any given time. So, you know, instructor will have five guys have an entire hour to work with them on that sort of thing. So that's what we did. And, and the last question is, did some of the kids not get it? Yes. We're still, there's still some kids that just, like their knees just collapse. It's just, but it's not their fault. Like since they. Probably since they first held a bat, they've been, been told, bend your knees, bend your, and, and here's the thing, Kevin, do you see this? The bounce? Or they all bounce.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:That's just kill, that's, that's just, that's just killing your, killing your
Mike Freire:knees. And I've seen dads and coaches do that. They go, Hey, bend your knees. And then they mimic it and they go and they bounce. So the kids are just mimicking so,
Dr. Kevin McGovern:so, That Scrabble College that you went, I use the word Scrabble because I believe in the name. There's 652 Continent. There's 37 Vols.
Ben Bills:They're changing the name of that school, by the way.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:Oh, thank God. Are they really to work from What? So what is the name of the, what is the full name of the college that you went to?
Ben Bills:Southwestern Assemblies of God University. Praise
Dr. Kevin McGovern:the Lord. Hallelujah. Praise the Lord. Now, what are they changing
Ben Bills:it to? I have no idea. It's just in the works. It's, it's, I've hear rumors about this and that. Our main building is named after John Haggy. So maybe they're gonna name the college after him. We don't know.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:Oh, no. They'll, they'll tear him down somehow. Somehow he did something. Yeah. Charles Naggy. Yeah, something. Haggy Haggy, Charles Agie from Connecticut. What what town is it in?
Ben Bills:It's in Waxahachie, Texas.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:So that's what it's gonna be. University of Waxahachie Waxahachie, which is again, a Scrabble world. But, so Ben, what? The difference, like how did you start off your preseason workouts or just beginning season at college and how much does it differ from what's happening now at these, you know, the 14, 15, 16 year old level? Or is it, or is it a lot the same? So
Ben Bills:a lot of it is, I mean, it's pretty similar, but it's not, it's not the same. You know, you get a lot of kids here that are like, Hey, when are we jumping the front toss? When are we jumping to overhand? And in. We didn't, we took our first two weeks of the off season of hitting our first two weeks. We didn't leave the tee. We were, you know, and then some of us stayed on the tee for the first month of the off season. We realize the off season is so big, there's no point in jumping and rushing to overhand or front toss, you know? And a lot of these kids here, they, they automatically wanna do that because why? It's, it's more glamorous to the eye. They can see how they're hitting the ball. They can, they, they think it's cooler when we're That's fine. Yeah. You know, it's more, it's more gratifying to the kids to hit the ball up front tossing live than it is off a tee. But what's really gonna make you better in the long run? So a lot of what we did was t work. You know, Ron Washington has his drills. We implement Ron Washington drills for the infielders. We don't, we didn't really do a lot of mass fungo for the beginning. We didn't really do a lot of ground balls for the beginning. We were just really working on for fielding with hands and then for hitting just, well, my hitting coach was something but You know, for me personally, we work, I work on my hips and where my hips are and how, how I'm feeling. So I'll just leave the, the hitting coach out of it for, for
Dr. Kevin McGovern:now. But so you know, Mike and I have talked on numerous podcasts that college coaching, we'll put that quote is more. You know, like managing ga. I don't know. I don't know, but there's not much. Yeah, it's recruiting and ex, it's recruiting. Yeah. And ex and yeah, not, not much like Ben, your foot position should really be here for this reason, or you'd be better here for the not really much change to your. You know how you go, your either approach or your technique. We don't see much of that. Is that
Ben Bills:true? False. I love my head coach from college. I love him to death. He's a great guy, great coach, but there isn't a lot of teaching going on. You know, there isn't a lot of this, mainly because you're recruited for the way you play. So when you get there, they don't want to change the way you. They're hoping over the four years, your, your skill set of what you're good at sharpens, but they don't expect you to, you know, get better in things you're not already, that you're not good at, if that makes sense. Like if you're not good at something, they're not expecting you to get good at something they recruited you for. Say you're, you're a pitcher and you have a nasty breaking ball. They recruited you for that. You know, we want you to continue working on that as opposed to like sharpening, you know, things you're not good at. So there isn't a whole lot of constructive criticism as far as posture, as far as mechanics, as far as that kind of stuff. Now I did have a pitching coach that pitched, you know, five plus years in the big league, so he was a little bit more mechanical. But all in all, all the college coaches I've met, all the summer ball college coaches I've met, they're all about putting the roster, putting the line up together and executing plays, and that's about it. They don't really care about, they just. They expect you to get the job done. They're not telling you how to get the job done.
Mike Freire:You know what I mean? Well, and if you don't, I mean, most colleges, I mean, I dunno what size roster you had, but it's not uncommon to have, you know, 40 man rosters. And
Ben Bills:we had about, we had about 75 kids on roster there.
Mike Freire:There you go. That's insane, right? So, so you not getting it done, next guy gets his opportunity. And this is not a knock on college coaches, and this isn't what we try to explain to our parents through Kevin and and players. Is that cuz you'll hear, oh well now he's been working with our neighbor. Our neighbor was You know, played in, played in college, and then was an assistant coach in college for free. Like, okay, that doesn't mean he knows how to teach this stuff because most, most don't. It's not their gig. It's their gig is to recognize the talent and ability. Recruit that right. Be a good enough salesperson. To get that person to come to your school and then know how to win games. When do I hit and run? When do I bun, when do I replace this picture? What am what's my lineup?
Ben Bills:Yeah. It's, that's a business. It's a business. I mean, the coach has to look out for his family. He's got, he's gotta win games. That's his priority. My head coach will be the first to tell you he was not a good college or not a good baseball player. He played at Geneva and I'm pretty sure he set the bench three of his four years at Geneva. Yeah, but he'll be the first to tell you that he wasn't a good player. But he wins ball games and that's, that's what they're there for. They're not there to like give instruction. They're not there to. You know, fix your, your
Mike Freire:swing. You know, at the end of the day you can't, I mean, what, what's there to develop for? I mean, you know, there are some programs, right? That where look at a juco. Okay? Now a JUCO will have instructional coaches on their staff cuz it's their job to improve you from what you are, to get you onto a D one roster. That's their whole, that's what makes a a JUCO coach successful at JUCO program Successful. So that's, but that's an exception. Now, most of them, you're there for four years and you know they're gonna use you as much as they can to win as much so that they can get, sign another contract and keep their job. And that's what they
Ben Bills:should be doing. And the hard truth of it is, is if you are assigned as a freshman, you're probably not gonna play your freshman year. And if they find a high schooler that's just as better than you already, you're probably not gonna play it sophomore year. You know, it's like, you know, it's. Like you said, their turnover rate. We had 75 guys on roster. It was such a short leash that if you messed up the next guy's in, it's next man up.
Mike Freire:I mean, we've had, we've had obviously a bunch of college players and we still have kids currently playing and it's the same, you know, every successful program, they're going to create a rat race at every position if they can. Yeah. They wanna make it as competitive as possible. That's right. So they recruit you, you're the number one recruit and you're a shortstop. And you know, they're telling you're gonna start as a freshman, Hey, the job's yours to lose. And that may be, The very next year, they may go out and recruit three more short stops. Yeah. And make sure that you're, you know, they're gonna watch the cream rise to the top. So, point here though, is Kevin, right? Is that it's a completely different animal. It's not like, I'm sure there are college coaches. There has been, and I'm sure there currently are, who understand. Hitting, you know, to a, to a very specific degree. You know, I would argue that, you know, like that's what we do. We're we're instructional coaches where we, we we're about skill development. And I think we're, you know, I would say that I do that better than the average college coach and the average college coach does his job better than I would, you know, than, than going and managing and recruiting. Well, kind of
Ben Bills:like our job is to make sure these kids are primed and ready to get to college. So when they're at college, They can come back to us if they need anything else, but they're, we want to send'em to these coaches knowing that they already know what to do and know how to correct themselves and know how to play the best of their ability. You know what I mean?
Mike Freire:Yeah. I would take it, I would take it a step further and say that before that you even have, you have to be a successful enough baseball player for a college coach to want you on their roster.
Ben Bills:Yeah. It's kind of like, I mean, it's like the food chain kind of. We, the college coaches almost can't survive unless we're not, unless we're, if we go away, college coaches can't. Almost because we're, we're, we're giving them the talent for them to use, you know?
Mike Freire:Yeah. I, I think it's no secret that the, you know, because the indoor facilities have, you know, the last 20 years have just become such a common thing. I mean, everyone will tell you that the college game is improved. Go watch. I remember, and we still have this with our kids, like they kind of poo poo D three. They hear G three and they, you know, every kid thinks they're gonna be a D one player, cuz those are the teams they see on TV and they just associate college baseball with you. S e acc, you know, and obviously there's a lot more out there than just those. So, and you've gotta be a very, very special player to play in those conferences. But, you know, you watch, go to on a Friday night and you watch two really good division three teams, like up here, we'll have, you know, UMass Boston's always really strong. Babson's really strong, you know, you're, you're gonna see those starters throwing in the mid nineties, you know, I mean, and, and, and it's good, good baseball and, you know, understanding that only. 4% of of high school varsity players. Not high school players. Not high schoolers, not high school aged kids. Kids that are actually at the level to play varsity high school baseball. Only 4% go on to play college at any division. So, you know, you're elite if you're playing, I don't care what division you're in. Yeah. And, and but in, so it's that hard to get there. Like you really, really have to nail your skills.
Ben Bills:You gotta be obsessed with training.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:Gotta be. It sounds to me like the last piece of instructional training is what they're getting with what you guys do. Right. And travel ball programs cuz they're not gonna get it in college. So once, mm-hmm. Correct. They hit that 17 U team and they go off to college That. Where are they getting instruction? Are they coming back to you guys? Like, it seems like they're on and out their own island, so they really need to develop good habits to stay good. Absolutely,
Mike Freire:and that's the key. It's like, you know, you get a kid and that's why we always talk about, you know, if we get a kid at 13 or younger, you know, and I say this like, you know, not exactly literally, but close. I'll almost guarantee that you're gonna play in college, assuming that you're gonna be here for training and you're gonna follow our direction. We get a player, we can teach them to be good enough to play in college at some level. Okay. We can find a program for them. Right. And once you get to 1415, especially if you've already had bad training, it's harder because it takes, it's a process. It takes two, three years to somehow learn to sometimes learn this. And the older it is, the longer it takes because. Just, you know, I mean, look, Kevin, I meet a 12 year old kid that kid's taken thousands and thousands of swings before I ever met him. So to undo that and to create a new muscle memory is, it's, it's, it can be a pretty tall task, but to answer your question, yeah, it, it's, it's the last line. We do have kids, we have college players come back. All the time to tweak. You know, I, I stay in contact with my college players, you know, checking with'em, Hey, yeah, I'm doing this. I can't, I keep rolling over or whatever. Hey, can I send you a video? Can you take a look at my swing? Tell me what you think. That sort of thing.
Ben Bills:Yeah. Mean, I would always send video of myself to a Speedo back home. And then every time I was home for breaks or anything, I'm, I'm hitting with a Speedo because I'm not getting any instruction in college. I need to fix my habits, you know?
Mike Freire:Yep. Yep. And it's just not the job. It's just not the job of a college head coach. Yeah. Imagine if you did that. You get a 75 person roster and he's what gonna, you know, pick you out and work with you 1
Ben Bills:0 1. And the odds are, the odds are if he is doing that, he's doing it with his top 5% because those are the guys that he knows are gonna play. And then if you're at the bottom, you know, 95%, you're not getting any, it's, you're not getting any instruction.
Mike Freire:One thing, one thing I'll, I will, the last thing I'll add is, and it's, it's, it's important to mention this is, College coaches will instruct on hitting approach. Right. You know on deck, all that stuff. The mental part of the game, the mental side of hitting, which is obviously very, very important. And but you know, and, and we do that with our older kids too. But that's, we do with everybody. But we have more time to do with our older kids cuz they have most of the mechanical
Ben Bills:stuff. And I will say for my short lived pro ball career, it doesn't get any better in pro ball. It's, it's actually probably worse when it comes to coaches giving instruction. Like then no one's there to help you out. So
Mike Freire:I'll, I'll turn it around a little bit because I think this will segue nicely. So one of the things, Kevin, one of the additional things that we do that I think colleges will do in some regard, or they'll have a strength training program, but is our players. You know, they, they have to strength train. I mean, if you want to compete, you want to be recruitable. I mean, college coaches, college recruiters recruit almost like pro scouts now you have to look the part, right? Mm-hmm. And so what's it's strength? Training's become big. We talked about it last time, right? We were one of the first, we were the first to do it here. And now it's just commonplace for any baseball player knows that they have to strength train. The arm care stuff for pitchers has become a bit of an obsess. And not only that, but it's, you know, band work, med balls. I, I don't see many people doing plys where they should, but there's a lot of wrong that I see in that. Right. And I feel like something that we don't talk about that much. We talk about arm injuries and how throwing mechanics and all these other things and overuse are getting kids hurt. I feel like some of it is just lots of questions about how to do certain things right? How to do arm raises, let arm raises, that sort of thing. Because I feel like there's a lot of information out there on what to do. Oh, grab a band and do this and make sure you get your internal rotations in. But not a lot of people showing, showing how to do that the right way. And it's, it's, it's.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:Yeah. I mean, most of the, if not all of the injuries that I see have some component of poor training associated with it, you know mismatch training would be one where I'd be like, what's the purpose of what you're doing You know what I mean? Yeah. And then the other one would just be a lot. Poor technique. You know, guys that can't do a, a regular air squat are squatting or now doing single leg exercises, doing lunges with, dumbbell with, you know, but then, you know, I watched, you know, I watched The nfl, like some pregame and I'm watching warmups and there's a strength coach out there and there's guys doing lunges, and that one lunge was correct in my, and then I would teach someone, not one. And then we wonder why running backs are out with hamstring injuries. Well, it's because you're doing it. Ross Well
Mike Freire:I know we'll probably covered this before, but let me ask you, front of the lunge is a front leg or back leg exercise.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:So having a ACL deficient knee and meniscal injury since I was 16 years old, a lunge is a rear leg
Mike Freire:exercise. Bingo. And almost nobody uses it as a rear leg exercise from what I see.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:So, no, because you have, so to do a proper lung, we, we wanna be everything at 90 90, right? The torso at 90 degrees to the hips, the hips, 90 degrees to the knee, the shin, 90 degrees to the. So when you teach a lunge, whether you're stepping forward or backwards, the key is where the movement comes from. And again, it goes to our friend Matt, which is the guy who's on your doorstep with no harms and no legs. Okay? So if you have prosthetic legs and you set them up at 90 90, the movement comes from your loins. You drop straight from lack of a better landmark. You get your foot in that position and you drop straight down and raise up. Your pelvic floor. That's where the movement comes from. But I will see step and immediately the knee going, the knee going over the toe, the torso going over, and then them holding weights. Mm-hmm. I'd rather you just smash your knee. Smash your knee with a hammer, it'd be a lot better for you. Just it'll, you know, lessen the long term, you know, just might as well wreck your knee in one shot. So there's a lot of that. So to me, that is, that is a complete, when I see that. Right. So that's a basic exercise when I see that. Anything that comes, you know, I, I, I manage like this and have for years. One is some two is. So you go into your billing collection system and you find one mistake or one little pattern. Some of your systems messed up. If you see it twice, all of it's messed up. You've got, you've got a virus, right? So if you see one exercise that's bad, some of what this person teaches is wrong. If you see two, all of it's wrong and you need to run.
Mike Freire:So that, that, that's, that's perfect cuz I have a question. Right. The lunge. That's pretty, it's a, it's a, it's a pretty obvious one. Mm-hmm. it's a gross motor. It's, it's in your face. It's hard to miss.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:It's one leg, it's a one-legged squat with the other leg helping.
Mike Freire:Right, right. So if that is so wildly wrong mm-hmm. In so many places, right? How, you know, what are the chances that somebody is, you know, doing a lateral raise and the socio thumbs up, but they may be pronated too much, right? Like, that's absolutely not gonna make to get caught if the lunge isn't being recognized
Dr. Kevin McGovern:and corrected. I got this question yesterday from our producer who called and we're, you know, we're talking about, you know, so first of all, we're doing front raises and lateral raises. My first question is, why? What purpose are you taking and taxing your little long head of your bicep and anterior deloid to do, it's something you're not doing anywhere in. Right. I'm not taking the lawn mower with my elbow straight and lifting it up or doing this. So it, if it, it has no function that I have seen unless someone's doing the stations of the cross at Easter.
Mike Freire:Okay. Maybe, maybe a mom. Right. Picking their kid up. Yeah. But
Dr. Kevin McGovern:they're, they're never out the crib like this. They're picking hair. Right. So it's, it's, it doesn't have any functional purpose. So, but that's side of the point. But when we talk about hand position, I kind of use soup to nuts. Okay. This is Sation and you can watch my shoulders. I know I'm blending into the background, but you can see my shoulder partially covering the mic stand in pronation. And when I go on supination, you'll see my shoulders drop. Okay. Supination equal scapula depression, pronation equals upper trap involvement. Pronation is nuts. We never, ever, ever, ever want to be in this position. It, it's, you're just, as soon as I get into pronation, I'm firing my upper traps. Okay? It takes someone very skilled to be in this position and still maintain scapular depression. Maybe 5% of the people on the planet can do it, okay? Or someone is highly trained. But as soon as we're over here we. This mimics, people have seen, unfortunately, someone who's had a stroke or polio, they've seen this position. Okay? It's also this, the fetal position that's deflection pattern of the body. That's lower brain function, meaning not intelligence wise, just the body goes to it, like the safe mode on the computer. So once we're in pronation, pronation, elbow flexion. Shoulder elevation, that's the flexion pattern of the body. That's, we come out of the womb looking like that. We die looking like that. So it's the bo, it's the go-to safe movement for the body, even though it's detrimental to any kind of athletic movement to be in that flexion pattern. And I will see people out here doing things turned, I mean, you turn your hand over like this and lift your arm up the muscle that's doing that action. Is about this big, your super spin tendon. Okay? And you're just killing it. But I'll see it. I'll see you with bands and I'll see it. And that's just someone who does not know anatomy, does not know functional movement, and I love an argument to prove that they do
Mike Freire:so. So that's an interesting point, right? Because obviously, you know, what kids have been taught forever is when they're throw a ball, the first thing that they should do is. Going to, can't see my hands, right? Yeah, just leave your turn and pronate your hand downward. Just,
Dr. Kevin McGovern:just for the rest of the show. Just leave your arms like this. Tell me if it's comfortable. Why would I wanna do any athletic movement that I can't hold for a minute that's comfortable, right? When I can just take it outta the glove and be here? Right. I don't, you can't throw the baseball foam, internal rotation and pronation. You can't. Right. You can't do it. Right. The hand eventually has to supernate and. So why would you start off in that position? It makes no sense to me. Yeah. No, I, and maybe when we do our pitching, when we do our pitching talk, we can talk about the insanity of that move. And listen, I'll hear the same thing. Every major league goes it that way. Okay. That represents 0.005% of the population. And then again, it also represents. Athletic injuries in any sport on the planet. Right. More than football. More than basketball. More than a league. Yeah. A league, yeah. The whole time. So something's wrong with that teaching. Very, very
Mike Freire:wrong. Yeah. You know, and that's what I'm saying. So this strength training, like the, like the idea, like, yeah, you want to get stronger and, and it's important to get stronger. In, in included now into that strength training is, you know, you hear the term all the time. It's arm care. Everyone hears it. Arm care, arm care. I'm, you know, we, you know, we had, we have a player that you know, asked us if we were gonna get this. That is like, you know, an Arm care app and it's, its device and it, it measures things and you can read on your phone and it's like, even if you have that information, even if it were accurate, which from what I understand, this thing is not very accurate. You know, what are you doing with that? And, and, and like, how are you deciphering? How are you? And if it tells you which one's the right one, which one's the wrong one, based on whose information, right, based on plus you can't feel it. You need an app,
Ben Bills:you need an nap this morning, you can't feel it yourself. Yeah,
Dr. Kevin McGovern:so I've had a couple of, I, I've actually commented. You know that this is the new thing, right? If we make our arm and elbow strong, we're not gonna have Tommy John surgery bullshit. Okay. Bullshit. You could have the strong I could. You could have Hu Hogan or Arnold Schwarzenegger throw, throw baseballs. Okay. If they throw against gravity, they're gonna get hurt. Okay. Actually, and I will argue that the stronger or bulk, more bulked up arm there is the more chance they have of injury. This is why guys back in the seventies and eighties weren't injured as much because they didn't look like linebackers. Okay. Yeah. They were these like, They look like accountants. The limber, Jim Palmer looked like an accountant. Okay. Steven Strasberg looks like a defensive end. Okay, so you have all this muscle mass and there's just not enough room to to move in that shoulder, so, Yeah. Baseballs five
Mike Freire:ounces. Yeah.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:The app you're talking about hasn't pitched in years. Yep. The app you're talking about is measuring arm strength. It's the new biggest thing. Why? Cause the people doing it and you know, does it measure strength? Sure. Yeah. But they're big, huge promoters. Okay. Which is a lot of what's going on. Yep. But look at how they're measuring. Okay. Someone lying on their back measuring internal and external rotation. Please name a sport where you're lying on your. With your arm out abducted doing internal external rotation, there is no sport. Maybe if you're playing with your dog, okay? There's no sport. So as soon as you turn the person to standing, okay, they have to stabilize their body, they have to do things, okay? Their arm strength is going to be different. So if you're measuring anything that's not in the functional position of. Of your sport, you're wasting your time. Like the NFL still has the 2 25 bench press, yet we can't find five guys to block in the NFL for a quarterback for two Mississippi. Right? So what does that bench press measure? Nothing. Because as soon as I'm on my feet, I've gotta stabilize my feet, my spine, my trunk, my strength changes. Okay? So when I'm on the mound, I'm not lying on my back up against the wall as you're doing internal and external rotation. Arm str, you know, the arm moves eccentrically. It's the last thing to go. Okay. It's the last thing to move. If we wanna talk about pitching strength, why don't we start, and I've asked the person to, who has this app in question? I asked them about the scapular thoracic strength, and I got crickets, crickets. Cricket because the scap thoracic joint comes before the shoulder joint, so you can't be working on a joint distal and not be talking about the joint that's proximal in a story. But good promoters, better promoter than me, you know?
Mike Freire:Well, that's the thing. It's like they, they, because it's an issue because there's, there's so much desire for it. And that's my point is, you know, the, the parent that asked about this, like, he's, he's been with us for a long time, you know, he listens to my advice. But there's certain things where, you know, there's outside elements now creeping in. And that happens sometimes when the players get older, right? And, and more people want to get involved in that player for some reason, right? Maybe they can attach their name to the future of success, whatever it might be, I don't know. But or they just start looking for more things that can give them an edge as they start to, you know, enter this pool where, you know, they're gonna be recruited nationally for colleges. I don't know. But the point is You know, there's so many gimmicks out there that are gonna, like, answer that call. You want more, you want another edge? Check this out, right? Check this out. And it's like, yeah. And, and, and not understanding, okay. What that is actually doing for you. And oftentimes, and I would argue to say even more often than not, is going to have a negative effect for that player. Huh? It's gonna put too much emphasis and focus on one area. It's the wrong.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:Listen, I'm a simple guy. The light comes on in your car, the engine light. When you bring it to the gas station and they hook it up to the computer to diagnose it, is the car on or is it off in neutral with the car in reverse and they're pushing it. It's on cause that's what the car does, the engine is on. So why would you be testing something in a position that the body is never in and then saying, That this is the end all be all to prevent arm injuries.
Mike Freire:Right. Which is, which is just insane. Just in just insane. Especially when you have like, you know, the actual mechanics of the pitcher, whether they use their legs in trunk to actually throw the ball rather than their arm. All these things like, but you said if it was about arm strength, then you know, guys like Ronnie Coleman could throw a ball 140 miles an hour. Mm-hmm. Ronnie Coleman can't even walk straight now, right? No. He, his knees are gone. Yeah. Right.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:But like you Yeah. All of these guys you have, yeah. Right. Or it's about Arm. Yeah. Plain and simple. Yep. Plain and simple. And then, you know, then the whole thing about, you know, it goes back to the whole, someone had posted about the velocity gun, how, you know Giri back in 1978 was throwing 94 miles an hour. Well, that was at the plate. Right? That was at the plate. What do you think that is coming outta his hand? There's a guy like five eight. To at least a hundred right now, cuz now it's come out of, you know, now they're measuring at the hand. So it's just, and it loses velocity the second it leaves your hand. We can take, you know, and this other jarred with someone I think we talked about, talked about a study. Okay. Let me just tell you and Mike, you know, from experience a study can be manipulated. Okay? We don't have to look so far of what's currently going on now with. Vaccine that had a 99% efficacy. Right now, when I look up the word efficacy, what it's used, its definition before covid was you don't get it. But now that's changed the word efficacy. So 99% means, well, you might certainly get it. So anything can be manipulated to prove a hypothesis unless it is a peer reviewed and tested study that has a double blind to it or a control group, meaning there's another group getting a placebo. Right. Unless, unless that is the study and it's peer reviewed, it's garbage. It's a, it's an opinion.
Mike Freire:There's even ways, there's even ways to manipulate around those now too. Yep. A hundred percent. They wanna sell their product. Yeah. I
Ben Bills:mean, ask son for example, son's a Wikipedia believer. He loves his Wikipedia. He just believes everything he sees on there.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:love it.
Ben Bills:He does everything you that Wikipedia, I've been reading Wikipedia the last week. It has to be right. It's gotta be right, right. Even though it's no one, even though I typed it last
Mike Freire:week, it's changed four times since you started. Yeah.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:And you know, and I listen. All the power to people trying to get better, but you gotta look at what is what, what's being sold, and more importantly, what are the results and currently, With all of these tread athletics drive line, you know, I heard actually Philadelphia just fired their drive line hitting coach, and of course the Red Sox scooped him up so good for the Yankees. That should be great, that not only was he fired, apparently he was like thrown out like, yeah, the people wanted them dead. Red Sox, red ups, the Red Sox pick up. So all these, all, you know, the running guns, you know, again, produce your results.
Ben Bills:I will say, We will say, if you go to full reps in Camphill, Pennsylvania, they have a board, a whiteboard, giant whiteboard of all their arm v. And every single arm on there is from a running gun and not on the mound, but they market it as these guys are throwing this heart off a mound. Sure. Oh, but it's not
Dr. Kevin McGovern:true. That's, that's, that's disgusting. Well, Kevin, and how healthy
Mike Freire:are those guys? Kevin knows this and Well,
Ben Bills:I went there and I was, so,
Mike Freire:lemme tell you. Well, here's the other thing they were doing. They were throwing bullpens and say, I'm not saying flu up. I'm not, excuse me. I'm saying what was a fad for a little while until, until college coaches cut on, is there were people that were putting their kids out there, their players to get them recruited, throwing bullpens with four ounce baseballs. Oh, well that's, and the video looks like a baseball and they see the gun and boom. 96.
Ben Bills:Yep. That I'm not, I never did it personally. I know guys that went to this place that did it personally. That was like, Hey, we're running. Four ounce baseballs, and then we're putting it on the board saying, you just threw 106.
Mike Freire:Yeah. Crazy. That's not sustainable. You will get, it's not
Ben Bills:real. It's just not real. No. Not to mention, if any anyone goes in there and
Dr. Kevin McGovern:sees them, I just can't. I can't. I, what I don't get is these baseball guys, coaches, recruiters that look at someone doing a running gun and be like, oh, that's, that's legit. No, dude, this isn't cricket. No. Right. We, we go from a stable position to a foot plant to an explosive movement. How does the run and gun mimic that at all, other than being injurious?
Mike Freire:Well, it's, it's also gotten a lot crazier, right? Like when fir running on first started, oh, it was almost like an outfielder, right? Where it's like, you know, a step and then a crow hop and throw. Now it's like a 50 yard sprint. Oh.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:Yeah. It's like, it's like Michael Jordan leaving from the fall line, right? Yeah. And, but you know, they throw the ball from the fall line. It's insane. It's just speaking
Mike Freire:of, by the way, yes. I think we do have one video we wanted to
Dr. Kevin McGovern:watch before you Oh, yes. Let me, let me see if I can, this is from the aforementioned full reps in Pennsylvania. If I'm not from a, if I'm, that's
Mike Freire:what I, that's what I underst.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:Ben Bill's old place after I sad, after I fixed his arm, he decides to go there and ruin
Ben Bills:it. It's sad though because the coaches there are actually like, I like like the coaches a lot. Like as people, they're great people, but I just, I just don't, you know what I mean? Like the owner of the place, him and I. We're great. I wouldn't say friends, but have a great relationship, but it's like, well,
Mike Freire:that's true. We, and we know this, this is evidenced by Ben Bills given a hang loose on his way out of there one day with a smile. Mm-hmm. Yeah,
Ben Bills:we've seen that. It's true. Actually, that was on my way in. Oh, the way in. Right.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:Pre-training. Get this up and going here. Hold on. Oh, here we go. All right. For those watching or listening at home, we have a pitcher on a mound indoors who's doing a magic trick. So he has a ball in one hand and one drill. He is shaking some sandbag and then let it go, and then throw the ball like frantically shaking it frantically, and then actually he's frantically shaking a physio ball with some handles. It looks like one of those things you used to jump on as a kid. And then, so he stands up on his, on his front. Does the shaking shifts back to his back leg and then throws the ball towards home play. What that is measuring? I, I'm not exactly sure that's loud. I'm not exactly sure, but that's, that's what he's, that's what he's doing. Well,
Mike Freire:and the shaking too. It's almost like an aggressive, vigorous, like fast pushup. Like he's doing a pushup with that sandbag thing that he's holding the log. It's one of those like ply logs or whatever they call'em. Yes. Shaking, shaking, shaking, pushing away from him. And then, and then the pitch. I would, I would love to know, look, I think he's working. The comment says, I think he's working on his command in this drill, but I could be wrong, So I
Ben Bills:will say when I trained there that none of that stuff was there. Yeah. Well,
Dr. Kevin McGovern:dude, but seriously, what? This is the, it's trending. What is this crap from who? That's it. Like again, here's exercise with a purpose. What is the purpose of this? What is this? Other than this, making this young man look like a jaas. Yeah, well that's, and again, we're not, and again, we're not criticizing the player cuz the player's only doing what he's been told by some jaas coach that you're paying thousands of dollars to go there.
Mike Freire:Right. And the, and the fact that they didn't do it before, now they're doing it. Just kinda,
Dr. Kevin McGovern:what's it cost to go there? What's it cost to go there?
Ben Bills:When I went there 2018, when I went there in 2018 for the winter, just the winter. 27.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:$2,700. Yeah. For how many what? What's that? How many times? Nine weeks. Nine weeks. Okay. How many kids are there at the same time as you? Mm.
Ben Bills:There was probably like 50 kids at the same time. Probably 40 to 50 at the same time.
Dr. Kevin McGovern:Oh dude. Someone got a calculator. Why? So that's 50 grand.
Ben Bills:But that was just the, that was just the high. Portion. And then they had the, they had the high school guys and then they had the younger guys, and then they had the college and pro guys. So
Dr. Kevin McGovern:it was all groups together. So there's, there's a half a million dollars right there of stuff.
Mike Freire:So why is it that they're changing? Right. And they, you know, they, you know, I think they'll probably tell you, oh, we'll progress with, learn new things. And we know we're, we're always our, we're open minded and we're always students at the game and we're learning and we're gonna add new things. And this is like, Like the, what's his name? The bazaro version of that. Right? Remember, remember the Bazaro,
Dr. Kevin McGovern:the
Mike Freire:Bizarre World? Yes, yes. Yeah. It's the Bazaro version of, no, it's, you're not looking to keep, stay open mind and learn new things. You just want new flashy things that are different to make people who are, who don't know any better look at that and go. They're doing stuff I've never seen before. They must know what they're doing. Well some people who know better cause
Dr. Kevin McGovern:they don't know what they're say. Wow. Right. Then there's some people who you've, yeah. Then there's the people who you tell them, you show them you, you show them science, you prove it to them. Live in front of their face. And they still go and do something. Yep. Insane. Or ask you like insane. Like, dude, we showed you the solution, we proved it to you live. Yeah. And you're still a skeptic or that to me, someone like, you know what? You're doing more harm than good to your kid and your kid's never going to make it because you're looking for the next shinier object and it just doesn't exist. Cause you were shown what works.
Mike Freire:The
Ben Bills:sad thing is, is like you got guys like my dad who, who pay this money because they believe it and they're. They're not like scientists. They're not, of course that's important. That's what they're marketing to. And my dad like, he's a great guy and he loves baseball and he is big into it, but he doesn't, he's not gonna question a guy who tells him this stuff because he sees the big TVs and the slow motion cameras. So he is like, they must be legit. You know? So like it's kind of like
Mike Freire:stealing money from people I've heard. I've heard a parent say this, okay, now this is four or five years ago, and I don't know if it was the Texas based, it was a place like that. And they said, yeah, we're thinking about doing this camp and it's three days and it's$8,400. And I go, what? What are they like? Are they literally like attaching like Nolan Ryan's arm on it? He showed, what are they? And he is like, well, I don't know. He goes, but if it's that much money, it's gotta be pretty good. Right? Oh dude,
I'll,
Dr. Kevin McGovern:I'll be in Ma, I'm in Masterminds. That will tell you. Like, you'll say, well, you know, Kevin, what do you charge? I charge X. They'll tell me right off the bat. Right off the bat, quadruple it. I'm like, what? I was like, dude, you quadruple it. So now you need one where before you needed five or six. Yeah. Now you need one. Right?
Ben Bills:Yeah. That was what
Dr. Kevin McGovern:I was, and the same and the same philosophy you said, just like the glove, just like the Wilson eight, 2000. If I was a kid it was, you know,$300 in the glass counter. Right. It's perceived value because you're charging so much money. I mean, I hope that I. Actually deliver on that value. But there, every time you get into a business mastermind course, immediately, first thing is double double your fees. Yeah.
Mike Freire:At the end of the day, I mean, you know, I know you're the same way. Like, I gotta be able to put my head down at night a hundred percent. You know what I mean? So like, you know, that's, and
Dr. Kevin McGovern:I think, I think I over deliver. Like, I think I'm, you know, like, so yeah, I think I'm, I could double my fees and be like, yeah, I'm compared to what you're getting down the street apps a hundred. Well, it's,
Mike Freire:yeah, we're in that same boat. Mean, you know, we're, yeah, we're, we're probably the most expensive round, but what we deliver on the value of, it's
Dr. Kevin McGovern:far more than what we, the kids are in and on your, yeah. They're in, on your plate. Yeah. Yep.
Mike Freire:All right. Well, we've been at this for
Dr. Kevin McGovern:an hour. I think so. I think so. Time. Again, please subscribe to our YouTube channel. Go to our website, prove it live. Dot. You'll see how to contact us, how to subscribe to our YouTube channel, and thanks again for listening. Adios, Terry Glen, baby Cherry
Mike Freire:Glen.